Published on January 31, 2006 By sushiK In Politics

Lately while listening to radio shows and talking with people here at JU it seems that Americans and their views are becoming quite split and even polarized on the way we view our government and the direction of the US.

The polarization I see happening is outside the boundaries of just Republican v Democrat.

Maybe it is guided my Parties but one camp I see is Reveling in America's new use of power and strong arm tactics. I am not sure if you would call them Federalization supporters but i find this group supporting America in these new avenues of Out-Sourcing Torture, wire-tapping, and holding non-us citizens without due process. I find alot more people supporting these actions of America blindly without any concern over the longer effect. If someone questions any of these tactics this camp is all over them questioning their loyalties or motives. I worry about the amount of civil liberties this group would be willing to give up in the name of National Security.

The other camp, the voice of reason that needs to come with these use of tactics, is starting to be the monority I feel. The people in this camp might range from people who want these tactics tempered with reason like me all the way to people who are pure anti Federal Government.

Do you see America becoming more Polarized?
If another Federal Att@ck happened and Bush came on the next day saying we need to start wire-tapping in the US to guarantee our safety, I really wonder how many would say yes before they thought it out.
Could there ever be a day when our great Nation has reverted to a Police State because the group that wants to keep order so bad has agreed to also start with their neighbors?

I am starting to wonder if that day is not as fictional as is once was.

Comments (Page 2)
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on Jan 31, 2006
" I was under the impression that unless you have a known connection to Al Qaeda, your phone is not being tapped. Is that not correct? "


It' my understanding that the phone that is tapped belongs to the terrorist outside of America, they just hear you talking because you are talking to a tapped phone. You can't expect people not to blow it out of proportion, though.
on Jan 31, 2006
BakerStreet

My timing may have been a little off but the message is correct!
on Jan 31, 2006
To make George a real lame duck is to have at least one house of Congress change in November 2006!
on Jan 31, 2006
"To make George a real lame duck is to have at least one house of Congress change in November 2006!"


Then, as I have told you over and over and over with complete goodwill, you ought to be addressing people WHO WILL ACTUALLY BE RUNNING IN 2006, not a president that will never run again...
on Jan 31, 2006
It' my understanding that the phone that is tapped belongs to the terrorist outside of America, they just hear you talking because you are talking to a tapped phone. You can't expect people not to blow it out of proportion, though.


Can you give us some insight as to where you read this?
on Jan 31, 2006
Eh, that has been the government's position the whole time. That was what the original accusation was by the organizations that filed suit. Given you are the one accusing them of tapping phones of US citizens in the US, perhaps YOU would know what the cases were about and offer some proof that they've done something more.
on Jan 31, 2006
Maybe it is guided my Parties but one camp I see is Reveling in America's new use of power and strong arm tactics. I am not sure if you would call them Federalization supporters but i find this group supporting America in these new avenues of Out-Sourcing Torture, wire-tapping, and holding non-us citizens without due process. I find alot more people supporting these actions of America blindly without any concern over the longer effect. If someone questions any of these tactics this camp is all over them questioning their loyalties or motives. I worry about the amount of civil liberties this group would be willing to give up in the name of National Security.

I very much agree with you.

Unfortunately, instead of reading what you have said some are already up to their old 'Us v. Them' rhetoric instead of uniting to protect themselves and other citizens from undue governmental intrusion.

I understood when you spoke of 'two camps' - not Dems and Republicans, not liberals and conservatives - but chicken-sh*t big brother lovers crying for government to protect them at any cost to their and others liberty and those who feel the federal government has been given too much power.

On this site alone you could fill a pocket dictionary sized book of quotes from users openly supporting totalitarian or police state tactics. A great example of this is HC's reply:

If that is indeed the case, tap away. Heck... tap my phone anyway, I don't care.

There are actually three camps in play here,

1) Those aggressively supporting a New Amerika contrary to what our forefathers orginally envisioned when they crafted the Constitution and Bill of Rights

2) Those desperately attempting to preserve 'The Old Republic'

...and the largest group:

3) The average domesticated citizen simply scraping through life too busy or apathetic to be informed or involved with Our Nation's maintenence.

The third camp aids the first, leaving the second camp looking fringe-ish.






on Jan 31, 2006
I've read a lot about this, but I don't recall reading anything that says the actual tap is being done outside of the US. That's why I asked where you read that. I wasn't being an ass, I've just not heard that so I'm curious.
on Jan 31, 2006

To make George a real lame duck is to have at least one house of Congress change in November 2006!

Please!  It they wear their diapers longer than that, the stink will reach my town!  Please change the whiny liberal babies sometime this year!

on Jan 31, 2006
Tonight Bush will propose Medical savings Accounts for the millions without heath coverage to obtain health care protection. This plan is for the millions of middle income families with NO coverage. Bush understands the problem NO HEALTH COVERAGE but he does not have a clue on how to solve the problem.

What Bush does not consider is the middle income family has nothing left with which to contribute to his medical savings plan. The savings rate has not been as low as it is today since 1933. Last month the savings rate was negative which means overall Americans took money out of savings not put money into savings. The Median Family income is $44,000 which means many families are far below that amount. Tens of Millions of American Families live pay check to pay check and the average Credit Card Balance is over $8,600 which is an ALL TIME HIGH.

Bottom line-The Bush solution to not having health care depends on savings that the families who need the coverage CAN NOT AFFORD! SOME SOLUTION!
on Jan 31, 2006
COL I ask you to please stay with the current topic.
His Healthcare proposal should be its own article.
on Jan 31, 2006
Evidently, davad, you haven't read much about this at all. I read about it everywhere it was written about. Where did you read that phones inside the US were tapped?

The issue that dragged the ACLU into this was there were organizations in the US being contacted from OUTSIDE the US on phones that were tapped THERE. According to the ACLU, the moment a US citizen in the US is found to be on the other side of the converation, the conversation must stop until the government gets court approval to spy on a US citizen in the US.

That's it, in a nutshell, period. If you can find proof that phones were tapped in the US, feel free to post it.
on Jan 31, 2006
The split in America is real as the middle income Family is under increasing strain. The solution of the president is to try and spin his old policies a different way not change the policies so they meet the needs and wishes of the majority. So long as Bush simply alters the wrapping paper on the package with changing what is in the package, the polarization will continue.
on Jan 31, 2006
The issue that dragged the ACLU into this was there were organizations in the US being contacted from OUTSIDE the US on phones that were tapped THERE.


I'm not doubting the part about some of the calls coming from outside the US, but I haven't seen anything that says the only "tapped phones" are outside the US. I'm really not trying to be argumentative, I just want to see something that says that other than your post. Your assertion that this was written about everywhere is false. We don't know the specifics of how the calls are tapped, so how can you say that? There are even reports that some completely domestic calls were caught up by the NSA. If all the taps are outside the US, how do you explain that?
on Jan 31, 2006
Could you show me those reports? I went back and checked the aclu site, and I reread the original cnn story, and I can't find what you are talking about anywhere.

If what I am saying is false, and you are that well read about it, I am wondering where you're getting it from. I did a google news search, and they DO make it sound like what you are describing. When they say "eavesdropping on American citizens" or "spying on American citizens" the people DO assume they mean what you think they mean. I've found several people like you who just KNOW that the NSA was wiretapping American phones, but I have yet to find one that could cite something.

If you aren't talking about the ACLU lawsuit, or the story the newspapers have been carrying, could you just link what you are talking about? How about just linking the ACCUSATION that the NSA was doing it, by someone more reputable than a blogger.

If you know more than the ACLU, I'm sure they'd appreciate the intelligence.
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